There are very few developers who dare enter the depths of the 4X waters. Fewer still are the number of developers willing to brave them more than once. Yet, one relatively new studio decided they weren’t content with just making a space 4X game, but they were going to tackle the world of fantasy 4X as well. Amplitude Studios, developers of Endless Space, will soon be releasing their new turn-based 4X fantasy game, Endless Legend.
Without a doubt, a lot of people are going to have some preconceived feelings, as indeed I did, about Endless Legend based on their experiences with Endless Space, its older cousin. It seems fitting than to start this preview off with a general overview of how they are related. Endless Legend is another game set within the “Endless” setting, a setting used thus far in all of Amplitude Studios’ games. Essentially, this means it shares some of the same game elements, for example the FIDS (Food, Industry, Dust, Science) resource system from Endless Space returns, though with added complexities. Anomalies, strategic resources, and luxury resources also make a return appearance, though again with additional implications. Many of the elements originally present in Endless Space have been redefined, optimized, and made more interesting in general within Endless Legend, with items like the hero leveling and customization system, neutral threats, and the research system all receiving significant upgrades for example. While some systems such as diplomacy are still a bit dry to participate in, even it does still benefit from some additional strategic considerations. This is in fact a theme present throughout Endless Legend, a theme of refinement.
The fact is, Endless Legend is able to do things that Endless Space could never imagine doing. Exploring the beautiful fantasy map present in Endless Legend with your armies, uncovering new resources, new neutral factions to conquer or barter with, and new sites to explore invokes feelings within me that frankly didn’t exist in the “largely lifeless” galaxy of space. The beauty and peace of summer and the bitter winds and slowed progression brought on by winter make you feel like you are in a world, not a lonely galaxy, but a fantasy world. Watching the expansion of your cities and territories as you construct them right before your eyes in full vibrant colors is unlike anything you’ll witness in Endless Space. The soundtrack and sound effects are also very well orchestrated and serve to immerse you into this new world. The production values certainly feel high.
No comparison of the two would be complete though without mention of combat. Combat has not been an Amplitude strong point, at least for most, up to this point. Endless Space had rock, paper, scissors attack and defense methods. While they improved this over time with the addition of fighters, bombers, and range settings, the combat choices in Endless Space were certainly one of its bigger weaknesses. Endless Legend, while still featuring mostly automated combat, has introduced a deployment and targeting phase that allows you to adjust things a bit mid combat. In addition, the variety of units, special abilities, and in some cases even combat magic have led to an increase in player ownership. That is to say that the player now has more control over victory or defeat based upon their decisions both before and during combat. The battle cards of Endless Space are nowhere to be seen, but heroes still present passive bonuses to their army, and more interestingly, join them on the field of battle as well. Not only can you customize your heroes with new armor, weapons, and accessories you’ve unlocked, but you can also customize your unit designs as well. While life, attack, and defense are obviously important, other stats like initiative are important to consider, and beyond that some items offer new battle abilities. Heroes themselves can uncover unique items in their travels that only they can use as well.
Not quite all the races that will be added to Endless Legend are present yet, but it is already easy to see the variety each of them has to offer. I’ve played as the Ardent Mages for example, and as mages capable of bending dust to their will, they so far offer the only semblance of magic spells present in the game. A lack of magic spells is certain to be a detractor for some fantasy fans, but I can say that at least one faction I’ve played has access to strategic enchantments as well as tactical combat spells. This obviously gives them a unique feel within the context of this game, but this does not mean that other races aren’t interesting.
The Broken Lords for instance rely on dust to increase their population, literally buying new citizens rather than birthing them. They also heal with dust rather than over time. The Roving Clans can literally pick up settled cities and move them to a new, preferably better, location on the back of a giant beetle. They also can’t declare war and have control over a luxury and strategic goods market I’ve only begun trying to wrap my head around. Not to mention that they also have better access to mercenaries. Another peace loving race, the Drakken were only just added, but they are playable dragons who believe in diplomacy and assimilating many factions into their empire. The unique traits of these playable races are brought out through starting bonuses and a couple of unique research options per research era.
Speaking of research, research in Endless Legend follows a nice progression system. Starting in Era I, you must research a set number of technologies before you can move into Era II technologies. At that time you can continue researching Era I techs if you’d like, or you can start in on Era II. This same progression system is used to move from Era to Era as you proceed into Era III, Era IV, and so on. At this time an Era V and Era VI are shown, but empty. This may be because the game is still in beta. The other interesting thing with Endless Legend’s research is that nothing has a prerequisite. If you’ve unlocked the era, you can immediately grab whatever juicy technology you want. The downside is every technology you research makes the next technology you research cost a bit more in the way of research points. This makes prioritizing what you need important, yet doesn’t punish you if you’ve missed some earlier technologies. In addition, advancing into a new era offers additional bonuses automatically to your empire, for instance by unlocking some new weapons and armor, new luxury and strategic resources, and new empire plans. Advancing and watching new resources appear on the map can be a little jarring at first, but seeing how many resources you had hidden and can now take advantage of is a lovely sight.
Influence points are a new currency that is quite important and goes hand in hand with diplomacy and the new empire plan system. Influence is obtained like any other resource, through the careful use of buildings, city population assignment, and even quests. Influence is important because without it you will miss out on numerous empire wide bonuses, lack the ability to communicate effectively with other major empires, and find yourself unable to assimilate conquered neutral factions into your empire. This resource perhaps more than any other must be carefully spent and managed or else you may find yourself unable to even declare war against an opponent. Empire plans allow you to spend influence, at set specific times only, in order to provide your empire with benefits that last until the next time empire planning is set to occur. When that time comes, they lapse and you can setup a new empire plan using whatever points you then have available. The empire plan branches out in 4 directions, with each direction offering increasing bonuses as well as increasing costs. You can mix and match as you please, with all points in one direction or a few points in each if you like. These bonuses are significant, but spending all of your points on them can be unwise. If you need to compliment a rival, you may not be able to if you’ve spent them all. If you conquered a neutral faction and want to assimilate them, in order to obtain extra bonuses and to be able to recruit their unique unit type, you’ll once again need to have these points.
I’ve mentioned quests a few times now, and here lies perhaps one of the biggest differences from Endless Space. Quests in Endless Legend offer unique challenges and rewards and provide a sense of direction right from the start. Each faction has a unique faction quest chain that encompasses activities that will take you until far into the game to complete. The stories I’ve seen so far have been worth reading, and the rewards feel worthwhile. With numerous quests sometimes on your plate at once, the presence of a quest menu offers a welcome way to pin the one that is most important to you directly on the main UI screen for easy access. Quests are what I was really looking for when Endless Space introduced their rather dull random events, and I’m glad to see Amplitude taking advantage of the fantasy setting to introduce them this time around.
Endless Legend already in my opinion offers a far superior experience to its older brother, Endless Space. You shouldn’t take this to mean I’m endorsing an immediate purchase of this title no questions asked. There are still a lot of things I need to really evaluate and judge once it releases, for example the effectiveness of the empire AI, which for the record I completely trounced on normal mode without any difficulty whatsoever. Normally I’d be quite concerned with poor empire AI play at this stage of development, but normal difficulty is in fact 4 levels below the hardest “Endless” difficulty. I will certainly be extensively testing the release version before presenting my review.
In addition, certain unit abilities and faction abilities, like the Ardent Mages’ tactical stun spell, felt a bit overpowered and may be better balanced by release. Endless Legend also lacks a finished tutorial and either has hidden or failed to offer a way to track how close you are to achieving certain victory conditions like you could in Endless Space. The good news is the game has multiple victory conditions to begin with, so now they just need to get them into an accessible location.
The combat system is also bound to be a deal breaker for some, and I’ll be going more in-depth on how it all works in the review. Endless Legend should be releasing by the end of summer. I’m excited to see the finished product.
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Thanks for the nice overview of where the game is in development.
I’m certainly interested in watching this one. My current computer just falls under the current system specs, but I don’t know if those are required minimums versus recommended or whatever. What is the performance like? Ultimately I’d be stunned if my computer couldn’t run it – does it really need a quad-core processor (for example)?
I think the mix of empire systems sounds great – and if combat as at least tolerable, the other features could more than make up for it.
I’ve not experienced any performance issues as of yet. I’ll need more time to say for sure though. I’ll see if I can find out about the min/recommend specs for you.
Having played early access, I’m actually somewhat disappointed.
Graphics – visually stunning, but I’m not a fan of the terraced hexes art style, especially since it’s not always intuitive if that’s supposed to be a cliff blocking your route or not.
Combat system – “also bound to be a deal breaker for some” is definitely right, it’s like tactical combat where you reposition your units on the overworld map and they duke it out, compared to civ, moo, and other tbs games, it’s kind of weird.
The region system – not mentioned in the preview, but I hope the review covers this. Tbh I don’t get it.
That said, it’s been a month since i touched this and the preview definitely makes me want to pick it up for another go.
The combat system is going to be a turn off for some, no doubt. On the other hand some people may prefer it to full blown tactical ala Age of Wonders or Legendary Heroes.
I’ll discuss more about the region system in the review. I like it though. I feel like it fixes a few different issues.
I get the impression that this is shaping to be a very underwhelming release.
Good quality tactical combat is one of the things that AOW3 did relatively well, and I get the impression that this system is going to very much fail as you say.
Graphics-wise, the screen shots do not look too impressive to me. Perhaps I have very high expectations, but I have to admit in that regard, this game will be underwhelming.
From what I can tell the AI might be getting better. My friend who paid for this says that although not an empty world, it’s nothing to be too impressed by.
All in all, I don’t think is going to be worth it at first. Hopefully we’ll see expansions rectify the flaws.
I’ll leave my opinions and thoughts for the review after I’ve put a lot of time into the release version, but I can speak to the graphics a bit.
It certainly has a unique graphical style. While it has a completely different art style than something like Age of Wonders 3, I still find both games to be quite enjoyable to look at. Also bear in mind that still shots are a bit misleading since you miss out on some of the particle effects like the snow whipping across the screen in the winter season. Art is subjective though, and I can see where some people may not like the style being used here. It’s certainly your right to dislike the art. :-)
“Endless Legend, while still featuring mostly automated combat, has introduced a deployment and targeting phase that allows you to adjust things a bit mid combat.”
– well, last time i checked, you could play every single turn by yourself ( if selected in game creation menue )
that fact wasn´t mentioned in this preview? did it get patched out?
No, you are correct, you can still do that. I still consider it mostly automated though. Let me try to explain…
Aside from the initial deployment phase, you are allowed to assign one default stance and one 1 action to each of your units once per turn.
The default stance is what your unit does if he can’t do the action you assign. The choices are offensive, defensive, and support.
The actions you can choose from include selecting whom to attack (or heal if the unit has that ability), or which space to move to.
That’s essentially it. Once you assign actions, you hit “Launch” and they start trying to carry out their orders for the round. Compared to something like Age of Wonders 3 or Legendary Heroes, you don’t have as much control. For example, let’s say you have 2 units targeting a specific enemy. Now let’s say your first unit kills the unit they were both targeting. When your second unit acts, you are not asked for input. It will instead seek out its own new target automatically. This is the automated part since you can’t assign that unit new orders to target the next biggest threat. It will just act on its own, presumably based on the stance you selected.
In a way, it is like you are a general giving orders and hoping your army responds appropriately as the tide of battle changes. At least, until you are able to regroup and give new orders (at the start of a new round). I’m not saying this is a bad thing. It’s quite unique. It’s just more automated than some people may like or be used to.
I did find the Ardent Mage faction’s ability to cast tactical combat spells opened up some additional options in combat, and I quite like that.
Polish distributor has set the release date at 19th September
I feel like that’s probably in line with what Amplitude has been saying.
If this doesn’t go down as the best fantasy or land-based 4X of the past decade, I’ll eat my shoe on YouTube. To those that say the combat system is a disappointment, I ask you this: what the hell more could you possibly want? It uses elevation and actual map characteristics to determine the battlefield, it’s tactically sound, it offers different weapons and armor…the list goes on.
Please, someone please tell me how it could be better. The only other game that comes close in combat terms is AoW3, but that game is so strategically boring that it just doesn’t compete with EL.
Buehler?
Combat could involve more decision points through abilities and spells similar to what the Ardent Mages have. That would be one way to make combat a little more interactive. Combat could also be more open about the modifiers in play. I’ve seen some iconography but it could be clearer. All in all I feel combat as it is gets the job done, but there is certainly some room for improvement. I do find it a bit refreshing since it is much faster than something like AoW. Again, just early impressions. Some people aren’t going to like not having full control though.
I still need to fully test the AI on harder difficulties. What are your impressions so far? Poor AI as we all know can destroy an otherwise good game.
The AI has most certainly improved over the iterations, but it’s the one thing I’m most concerned about because as you pointed out, it is super important with these types of games. I have confidence, however, as they’re focusing on it now and as I said, it has already improved.
I understand your perspective on combat and believe that a more active combat system, i.e. active skills and the like, is in the works.
It’s not perfect by any means but the lessons learned from Endless Space are extremely apparent. It’s better in every way. It is already more fun to me than Civ V as it’s much more varied and the combat is much more interesting.
The bottom line is that it’s certainly one to support and it’s already very fun, though not balanced just yet.
Back in Endless Space beta, everyone was amazed at the visual prowess of the game and despite concerns with the AI, we though Amplitude must be working hard to fix things. Nope, the game shipped in 2-3 wks and the AI stayed poor ever since.
Based on the state of Endless Space currently, I simply don’t believe Amplitude is capable of coding good AI. Assuming ‘surely they must be working on this’ was how I got disappointed the last time.
Finally, we also assume a harder AI means we are facing a more intelligent opponent but what I see is simply the game allocating greater bonuses to the AI to artificially pad things out. It’s less going from Chess Noob to Chess Grand Master than it is Chess Noob to Chess Noob with a few more pieces on the board.
If it’s anything like the SOTS or Warlock series, no amount of eye candy would make it a good game. Hope to be proven wrong come mid September though.
Hey hey now, SOTS Prime has decent AI and challenging scenarios… and some great mods! It’s probably the only reason I’ve given way too much slack to Kerberos after being burned on SotS 2 and Fort Zombie.
As I already commented several times, it’s unrealistic to expect a good AI from a complex 4X game. If you want a challenge, but AI players having huge bonuses is bothering you, better hope for a well-made multiplayer.
Oops, I meant SOTS 2. =P
Prime is simply the most enjoyable game despite some odd AI quirks that I’ve played and I’ve been gaming since the 90s.
Could anyone elaborate (or point me towards and elaboration) of how exactly the combat works? Are units stacked in armies (multiple units per tile) and when they collide it uses the strategy map as a proxy for terrain? Or are units pulled into battles across some area of influence and retain their position from the strategy map? I’m really curious how the arrangement actually works.
As an aside, I’m all in favor of systems that make combat strategically interesting yet tactically quick to resolve. I like AoW quite a bit, but the tactical combats definitely make the game take a lot longer and they can get repetitive at times. How does EL find the balance?
Yes, the armies are stacked with units with a different max amount of units per army based on technology. When combat commences, the actual map terrain becomes the battlefield in a 10×10 grid (I think it’s 10×10, at least). The actual topography is represented a little differently at that point to make the combat more visible, but it works really well. (hard to describe, so check out a Let’s Play on YouTube!)
Combat occurs pretty quickly and elevation and positioning really effect the way damage is dealt. I honestly believe that it’s the perfect compromise. I hate battles that take forever (I’m looking at you, AoW3!) and I don’t like battles that hardly have any tactical considerations (I’m looking at you now, Civilization). Battles rarely take more than a couple minutes here. Where your units begin the battle is something to always consider when attacking the enemy.
I find it to be the best balance between tactical and quick resolution that I’ve ever seen.
That sounds really positive – like a great compromise.
Have you played Starbase Orion on iOS? It’s a bit of Master of Orion clone, although an excellent game in its own right. The combat model works somewhat the same, where when battles occur you can allocate orders to each individual ship, including movement and targeting priorities (sort of like Gratuitous Space Battles), but then you hit the button and watch the combat unfold. It’s a great balance and makes things a lot better for multiplayer too.
Personally I’d rather have an AOW3 system. There’s a good autoresolve for the minor battles and battles you know you’ll win/lose for sure.
Strategically, AOW3’s AI needs work.
Tactically though it’s actually pretty good, and can hold its own against a moderately skilled player.
Hmm, Age of Wonders 3 tactical AI was terrible last time I played it. Especially in sieges where it was downright awful. I guess I’ll see if it has improved when the expansion releases.
EDIT: Left out the words “tactical AI” in the original reply. I didn’t mean to say Age of Wonders 3 itself was terrible. As I mentioned in the review, I had some good times with it. It just wasn’t great (at release anyway).
It’s a problem of consistency more than anything.
Some random maps, the AI will hold its own against the top players on their forums.
Other games … yeah you have a point. The AI makes some pretty strange decisions.
Let’s look at the other “best fantasy or land-based 4X-es of the past decade” :
Civilization 4 and/or 5
Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic (ok, almost, released in 2003)
Heroes of Might and Magic 5
Total War *fill number and subtitle for whatever is the best one*
Europa Universalis 4
Dominions 3 and/or 4
Crusader Kings 2
(YMMV depending on whether you consider some of them 4X games or not)
So, lots of competition down there… but EL sure looks like it has the potential to compete with these big names!
you forgot about Dominions-series… especially Dominions 4.
A very unique 4x doing everything different. deep and tactical as hell.
Not a series I enjoy unfortunately. It still had a strong emphasis on multiplayer last I heard.
I enjoyed Endless Space enough as it was (despite the limitations) so have just jumped in early with Endless Legend. After my first game I’m impressed and the improvements mentioned by others already were obvious.
One area I’m not sure about is longevity. The variation in factions is great and I can see that minor factions will lead to some variation in units. Are the quests the same every time for a faction or do they vary? Are there any major random events?
The region system takes a little getting used to. I had a minor faction a few tiles away, and after pacifying them, it took a moment to realise that I couldn’t assimilate them as they were actually in the next region.
I can understand why the AI is being left to the back end of the development cycle. But with release apparently only 3 weeks away I really do hope that they have invested enough time and effort in this. I don’t expect brilliance but at the moment there is a whole lot of stupid e.g. cities were seemingly always weakly defended.
They are definitely working on the right areas before release:
http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/content.php?468-Endless-Legend-Progress-Report2
Not having liked Endless Space very much so far never really managed to get into it to be frank I am causally optimistic on this one. It could make a so far rather disappointing 4X Fantasy game year a lot better. My only main concern its release date might slip to close to Civ Beyond Earth and there is only time enough for me to play one of them this autumn and I think Civ Beyond Earth definitely has the upper hand on this one.
No, it won’t slip. They’ve made that very clear. Before the end of Summer is an absolute.
I haven’t played Beyond Earth, but I can tell you that it will have to do everything right to compete with Endless Legends in my book. EL’s factions are so distinct and different, and their background lore so rich and interesting, that I just don’t see how Beyond Earth’s faction system (they’re calling it “Sponsors”) can even compete.
We’ll see developers say a lot when the days go long and a rushed product wouldn’t help anybody either. About Beyond Earth vs EL. Well SciFi theme always has the uperhand on my table there are so very very few planet-based scifi-4x games compared to so many fantasy-theme based 4x. Already that will give Beyond Earth such a major plus point in my book. Firaxis definitely also has a better track record of bringing out a polished product than Amplitude. Besides even if BE only has 50% of what Alpha Centauri had to offer it will be the best 4x game in the last 10 years. I don’t see EL getting anywhere close to that mark. But of course that’s all hypothetical and opinion so far :D
I disagree with the “Even if BE only has 50% of what Alpha Centauri had to offer it will be the best 4x game in the last 10 years.” comment. There have been solid 4x games in the past 10 years that are at least 50% as good as Alpha Centauri. That’s a pretty bold statement to make.
@Keith
Of course you’re allowed to disagree :D it is just my personal opinion. There definitely has been a major lack in SciFi-themed planet-based 4X Games recently. While Fantasy themed ones have been thriving lately. The only one I know of is Pandora First Contact which is definitely good, but just falls a little shy of the 50% mark it just lacks that extra bit of polish or production value but I would say lets see what the next DLC for it brings.
@DrBalthar
Oh I absolutely agree that we need more planet-based 4X games with a science fiction setting. I don’t know why we don’t see more of them. My only thought is that perhaps publishers/developers feel like fantasy has a broader appeal, at least when you start taking the space battles out of the SciFi games.
Pandora’s expansion/DLC looks like it may fix some of the biggest issues people had with the original. Unfortunately, it won’t be out until after Beyond Earth. I’ll probably pick up both games myself, but I’ll be waiting on reviews before doing so.
@Keith:
Are you’re sure about the Pandora DLC I read on Steam it will be out on 19th of September which makes it a whole month before Beyond Earth which I agree will be a tough competition that’s probably why they want to release first.
Ahh I stand corrected. You are right. I had initially thought it wasn’t due out until much later. Well that is good news then! Looking forward to hearing about the improvements (hopefully).
I think they probably have to ship for business reasons. You know that they’ll keep supporting their release, but they have a 35 man company. Imagine the overhead…
Oddly enough I have Endless Legend early access and Civ5 (since BE is using the Civ5 engine and mechanics) and still find myself going back to Civ3. Nothing I’ve played conveys being master of an empire quite like Civ3’s city spam. Oh well.
I agree, Ore. In my book, Civ3 was the best of the series. Four and Five are on the back shelf somewhere ($$$ wasted) but I still play Civ3 from time to time.
Weird, I thought Civ3 was usually considered to be the worst one… Could you please tell what you think makes it better? (I’ve only played a few hours of Civ3, and almost no Civ 1 and 2, so I can’t really judge…)
Don’t know I remember Civ3 as being such an instable mess I never came back to it after one play through. Civ4 I come back from time to time simple because of the amazing MODs something Civ5 so far hasn’t managed to capitalize on. But my secret all time favourite is CtP2 (for whatever ever odd reason a lot of Civ fans look down on).
I wish they would either make tactical combat in their games or make the combat auto resolve. Having to make a few minor and obvious tactical choices is just annoying.
I like the style and graphics. Reminds me of Heroscape.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroscape
Actually, you can auto-resolve combat. You can also just be a “spectator” and watch the AI control your units. Manual control is just one of the available options.
The hexes are reminiscent of Heroscape in a way. In this case you don’t have to spend forever on setup and tear down though. :)
I like the sound of that. Are there any penalties for auto-resolve? Like in some games you can choose to auto-resolve but unless you have overwhelming odds you still win but lose a lot more units than you otherwise would have with manual control.
I need to play further before I can say with confidence. I’ve been using the manual option, but I will test the auto resolve a bit for the review. The few times I have used auto-resolve it seemed pretty accurate to what would have occurred in manual mode.
My educated guess is that auto-resolve would affect factions like the Ardent Mages more than others. This is because they have several tactical spells they can choose from, and the AI may not use these spells in the best way possible. It is also possible that the AI may cause some units to be lost that you’d rather not sacrifice.
I’ve played EL in it’s beta state more than I can remember playing another 4x game. It really draws me into its world. I’m with DD as far as combat goes, it’s a good mix between tactical and quick resolution. They have added a bunch of little things as the patches come that really add to the immersion of the game. I’ve played with almost all of the factions now and each one has a unique path you can take to max out your bonuses. I think I like the vaulters the best so far as you can really research techs quickly with them. The UI, although daunting for new comers to the game, is maybe the best I’ve seen thus far in a 4x game. If they can fine tune the AI and balance the game play, this could be one of my favorite 4x games of all time.
I would modestly mention Worlds of Magic as a 4X game worth to be mentioned.
Worlds of Magic will certainly feel quite a bit different than Endless Legend. Endless Legend doesn’t contain much in the way of magic, which is certainly a core element of Worlds of Magic.
I’m sure you and the team watch closely to see what people like/dislike about other 4X games. Obviously you need to march to the beat of your own drum, but there are some innovations and lessons that can be learned from Endless Legend.
“Endless Space had rock, paper, scissors attack and defense methods.”
I’m tired of this. Have you people NEVER played rock-paper-scissors?!
ES (and GalCiv) have 3 different attacks and 3 corresponding defenses, but it does NOT make them RPS.
If they were, then (for instance) lasers would beat missiles which would beat mass drivers which would beat lasers.
Examples of RPS games : Fire Emblem (swords/spears/axes), Pokemon (where it’s more of a rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock and even more complicated variety).
Other games with complex mechanics can sometimes have emergent behavior resembling RPS, sometimes at the level of the metagame :
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/rock-paper-scissors-in-strategy-games.html
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that ES and GalCiv have *exact* copies of rock, paper, scissors mechanics. Just that their combat systems are so shallow and simplistic that they are comparable to the simplicity of RPS.
What Mark said is exactly what I was getting at.
As I see it, the problem is that this creates a semantic issue where a Rock, Paper, Scissors system becomes synonym of bad, shallow, simplistic gameplay (from criticism of ES and GalCiv2), whereas not only ES and GalCiv2 don’t have a RPS system, but a RPS system can actually make for a very good game (as those mentioned in my first post).
It’s a bit like how “free to play” has become to mean almost the opposite of what it should mean, but if in that case it’s greedy corporations that are responsible for the shift in meaning, in the RPS case it’s more the game journalists’ fault (if I’m not mistaken).
@ BlueTemplar,
Yes that’s exactly what it does. And for people like myself who don’t like such simplistic game systems and wish to avoid them like the plague, its a very good thing because shorthand terminology (like RPS) gives us an unambiguous heads up that we probably wont like the game. An important piece of information for any reviewer to convey.
Whether RPS-like mechanics (if you can call them that) can make for good gameplay is *very* debatable and would seem to depend a lot on the personality and tastes of the individual making the claim.
For example my opinion of ES and GalCiv2 is that they do have bad, shallow and simplistic gameplay, at least where combat is concerned, thanks to their RPS-like mechanics. You probably feel differently, however I think we both deserve to know what we’re potentially getting into when we read a review so we can both make an informed decision.
And your post proves my point as you seem to have confused the two yourself.
“RPS”-like mechanics (like in ES and GalCiv2) might not make for good gameplay.
However RPS mechanics (which are quite different from “RPS”-like) certainly do make for good gameplay, as you can see by the huge success that is the Fire Emblem game series.
But using easily identifiable shorthand terminology to identify a game with simplistic mechanics *IS* the point.
I don’t care if a game is or isn’t *Exactly* RPS, just that it’s mechanics are simplistic enough to be comparable to RPS and therefore of little interest to me. Calling it RPS or RPS-like does that very well whether it is 100% accurate or not.
And successful or not I can assure you that Fire Emblem is not my sort of game, same as ES and GalCiv2 are not. I’m more into games like Aurora, Dwarf Fortress and Orbiter and I find RPS a very valuable term in a review – not for its accuracy or lack thereof – but because it is a good flag that I probably wont like that sort of game.
Played it in May. Has some interesting ideas and very nice graphics, but the AI was pretty poor.
I wouldn’t rate this game as a purchase at the moment. Will considering checking it out again when it’s released.
I’m 100% certain that some of you will be eating crow in a few weeks.
The game is much better than some of you (who haven’t even played the final version and nor have I) suggest.
I, for one, welcome our new Amplitude overlords.
The game looks like it is going to be a pretty good fantasy 4X with limited combat. Am I missing something that makes the game a giant leap over Legendary Heroes or the Age of Wonders games?
It’s really not that limited of combat. It’s quick and has some simple rules, but it’s by no means limited.
It has a shit ton more polish than LH and its faction diversity makes LH look like a joke. So honestly, the faction diversity itself makes it more interesting than both of those games.
The empire management is much deeper and interesting than AoW3 and maybe not quite as interesting as LH. It’s quest system is better written and more in tune with the lore of the game and factions, which makes it more interesting to me.
It doesn’t have as many units per faction as either game, but you can assimilate minor factions that give you new units, which basically allows you to find and choose from an additional 14 or so units.
Honestly, of the three, it’s just a much better overall experience. I already have around 50 hours in to it and it only recently became entirely playable. I also have a full time job and a young baby, so time is extremely limited.
I see that you edited your original comment, but I’m definitely not PR for Amplitude. They’re just one of the few developers that actually listen and engage the community, so I’ve become a big fan.
This game hasn’t even release yet and it’s already more fun than both of those games you mentioned.
That’s just my opinion, though.
you get hyped often devildog, maybe that´s why people often say you would do PR for game xy.
would not say it´s better than LH, thats more a question of taste. But both are playing in the same league. Endless Legend is great fun for me atm.
I don’t get hyped for every game.
I got hyped for Stardrive 1 and despite its flaws, it is still a lot of fun.
I get hyped for Stardrive 2 because I’m involved in testing and it’s awesome. Can’t say more.
I am hyped for Endless Legend because what’s publicly available is already very good. Now I’m involved with testing that and I can only tell you that it’s worth getting hyped about.
But when I’m hyped, I admit I’m very vocal about it.
I’ve been very vocally negative about quite a few games here. I promise.
Funny, a lot of Amplitude forum threads I’ve read lately have a common theme – love the game so far BUT not nearly ready for full release due to poor AI.
The techs also seem to have a MMORPG feel to it – upgrades and tech bring only incremental number buff so things end up feeling bland quite quickly due to the small number of unit models.
EL is certainly a step in the right direction compare to ES but a lot of problems that made ES a mediocre 4X game are still very much present despite a fresh coat of paint.
And yes, you do tend to come off as overly eager to a lot of early access games mentioned on this site. =)
I know you weren’t directing your comments to me, but I can chime in since I have some experience here.
I find it really strange that people would say the techs are only incremental buffs. I would actually completely disagree. The incremental increases are true to some extent with the unit upgrades, but I actually find the tech tree to be a strength in this game. There are a lot of techs that unlock things as opposed to providing small bonuses.
I’ve not kept up with the official forums. I don’t know what is or isn’t being said there. I just know what my experience has been so far. The AI may turn out terrible, but I’ll give them until release to truly judge it. Thus far on normal I did find the AI cities very lightly defended and their empires seemed weak. Then again, normal is not a high difficulty and they have time still. AI most definately IS a concern of mine though.
The 4 unit types per faction is offset by the fact that you can assimilate minor cities and unlock their unique units for recruitment. This opens up possibilities quite a bit. Without this option, I would agree it would be quite bland. With it, I feel the variety is pretty good. Each faction can assimilate at least 2 of these at once (though you can switch them out later), and the Drakken gets this tech earlier and can actually assimilate 3 with proper research.
Endless Legend is not just a coat of paint on Endless Space. It is an evolution with most of the good minus most of the bad. I’m anxious to see what they can pull off AI wise by release.
I pre-ordered this, but haven’t played. Going to wait for the full release.
I’ve got the early access and so far I’m really enjoying it. The game has a very unique feel, some fresh innovative ideas and overall a promising design. I’m pretty optimistic about that one.
Btw … I wish stardock had shown a bit more courage and gone a similar innovative way with GC3, so far I’m rather disappointed with what seems to be more of the same.
Completely agree. I have hardly any interest in GalCiv3 and I think you’ve summed up why.
I need something a bit more innovative. It just feels like a very slightly improved GalCiv2.
Of course that’s basically saying that it’s an improved version of one of my favorite games ever, but I need more in 2014-15.
that doesn’t mean I expect GC3 to turn out to be a bad game, but that the next version will probably retain the major fault of GC2: for me it totally lacks immersion for what is supposed to be a space 4x game, nothing more than a board game feel, a civ in space, it never managed to keep me interested for a long time. So I was really shocked when I saw the very same old map in was is supposed to be a new game. Anyway. there seeme to be a lot of people who expect more or less the same thing as before
I agree. It will probably be a pretty solid game, but what I’ve seen in Early Access is just…boring.
I hate to say that, because I’m a big fan of Stardock, but it does nothing to add anything to the genre and just feels like a prettier iteration of the same game I played 10 years ago. Or however long ago it was.
Still bought it, nonetheless.
The basic gameplay mechanics in GC2 appears to just plain not work.
I tried building ‘influence satellites’ – went hog wild on them. Build like twenty. DID NOTHING TO CHANGE MY INFLUENCE.
Stuff like that is all over that game. I don’t think Stardock understands the core of what gaming is all about – choices and feedback.
Their games do not give you feedback on your choices and your choices seem to make such very little difference.
Agree 100% about GalCiv 3. Their decision to come out again with that same FLAT universe design is very disappointing. Will NOT be buying it.
As for Endless Legends it does look very promising. With its city development and different Victory conditions it should be more compared to the Civ games than past fantasy games like Age of Wonders series etc. So i have no problems with its combat technique. With CIV/BE coming soon and now Endless Legends, looks like 4X Sci-fi and Fantasy players should have a fun Winter.. :D
Endless Legend seems to be a very interesting upcoming 4X-strategy title.Graphically, this game looks very nice, the combat system it’s a new and interesting idea, the music it’s great and the fact that the races are new and originals it’s a plus ( i think we all got bored by elves,orcs etc). I think Endless Legend can have the potential to compete with Civilization and Age of Wonders 3.I am really looking forward to EL.
Awesome article! Broke down the game into parts to give us a pretty awesome overview of the game. Can’t wait to try out this game on release! Love how they have very strong lore behind each race and how they are tied with each other even in their other games like Endless Space.
Amplitude Studios’ Spacetroll hosted a very informative Q&A regarding Endless Legend today. I listened to the interview, which lasted close to an hour, and wanted to share some highlights for those that may not have the time to watch. Overall it was very informative and offered some clarity on why systems are designed the way they are.
AI
– There were no questions or discussions about AI. I only mention this because I know a lot of people would be curious about this.
Diplomacy
– 2D animated diplomacy screens (replacing static image diplomacy screen) planned by release. (This will be quite an improvement over what they have today)
Mac version
– trying to release at the same time as PC, depending on testing.
Faction balance
– Discussion about how they balance the asymetric factions. In short, lots and lots of playtesting is required.
Battle System
– He goes into what their design goals were with the Endless Legend battle system. They wanted battles to be quick with a strong focus on terrain bonuses and positioning. This is why it was so important that combat take place on the actual terrain present on the strategy map, as opposed to a randomly spawned map. They also want the player to feel like a general, giving orders and watching his army try to fulfill them.
Battle System Abilities
– Early on they had more active abilities, but they found combat got too tedious and strayed too far from their vision. They removed them in favor of more passive abilities in order to simplify things. This allowed them to pull the design back towards unit choice and terrain bonuses instead. The Ardent Mages have some active abilities and are a good choice for people who want that. Therefore, no plans for further active abilities at this time, but the systems may still be there for modders to unlock.
Modding
– If things go as planned, basic modding will be available on release.
Addons and Expansion
– Similar to Endless Space, the plan is to support the game for a long time with free addons. These could include new quests or quest mechanisms for example. Any expansions (and it sounds like they would like to do one) would focus more on completely new gameplay areas, for example adding a new system like espionage. At this time no DLC or expansions are designed or being worked on. They are focused on the core game.
Custom Factions
– Custom factions are still being worked on. He is not happy with the variety of choices currently available. He would like to see more
Budget
– 3x the Endless Space budget has been spent on Endless Legend.
They avoided the only question that mattered… =(
They didn’t avoid it, it just wasn’t asked.
Hmm, okay I misread that.
However, considering AI is definitely one of the top concern for any strategy game, I’m surprised it wasn’t brought up at all.
This sounds more like a soft interview where the devs gets to do a sales pitch for the game rather than answer difficult questions. I mean future expansions and budget? Really, is that what gamers are concerned about an upcoming game these days?
I may sound overly negative here but with the release date coming in 3 wks, the lack of any meaning discussion on AI is a huge concern for me.
Apparently the AI has been improved in the latest VIP build:
http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/showthread.php?36114-A-Plea-To-Postpone-Release&p=199358&viewfull=1#post199358
I hope it’s true and not spin!
Not much time left. The latest chatter in that thread sounds a bit too good to be true. I hope it is true, but the proof is in the pudding. Going to be an interesting few weeks!
Obviously that thread was started by me and now I can honestly tell you that the improvements made since I started that thread are enough that I can say that it’s as ready as it needs to be. Don’t need to take my word for it as it will be evident to the public by the end of the week if everything goes right.
The AI has received a big boost and other holes have been filled, creating an extremely solid product. I’m probably the most critical fan of this game and most of my immediate concerns have been alleviated. This IS an indie company, however, so some of the gameplay hopes I had for it will have to wait (as they stated in their recent Q&A), like wonders and the like.
Don’t take my word for it, just check it out later this week.
Hoping to give it a whirl this weekend if they update my build by then.
Thank you for this transcript.
Great thing is that Amplitude said they will be adding new content for free and even they are planing an expansion. They can add lot of things to this game and it have great potential. Looking forward to release.
I’ve been following various previews and Let’s Play videos of this game, and have to say I am really looking forward to it. The territory control looks like an interesting choice in a 4x over the classic city border expansion, and as you mention the quests look really personalized. Looking forward to the full release!
Honestly, I’m concerned about the AI in this game, especially considering how close it is a “full release.”
Not that the AI has to be on the level of a chess super computer or anything. AI that is a credible threat is usually enough for 95% of players.
It also helps when the environment itself has some interesting things to do as well (wandering monsters/neutrals/quests/etc.).
I am keeping my fingers crossed for this game. I have been sorely tempted to purchase it but have resisted so far…
http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/showthread.php?36114-A-Plea-To-Postpone-Release/page4
This thread wouldn’t make your fingers uncrossed any time soon I’m afraid. There are basically two camps from existing players: one side loves the game but reckons it’s no where near ready for release due to AI, balance and bugs; the other side reckons Amp will eventually polish it up with add-ons because of ES so will buy regardless of the current inadequacies. It’s ES deja vu all over again. =(
Personally, I judge a game based on what’s in front of me and not what it COULD be potentially so at this rate, it’s definitely in the ‘check back in a few months’ pile.
If you’re interested, I have a giveaway contest going on for Endless Legend on the official forums! Come on by!
Thanks, I will do that. I may have some reservations but I am always interested in any fantasy TBS game.
Endless Legend really does seem to have a lot going for it from what I have seen in videos and so on. My only reservation has been the AI and if it will be good enough to put up a decent fight.
I have been in this EA (early access) for some time. It has been shaping up nicely, and I am definitely looking forward to having the full release!
So far, the EA is virtually bug free, and fairly fun. However, we are missing a few features, most importantly competent AI. Still, the devs are hard at work for this at release now that it is more or less feature complete.
The game really is quite innovative – there are a ton of cool new features:
Simplified tactical battles (think somewhere between the autobattles of endless space and full out aow tactical).
Interactive marketplace where all races can trade heroes / resources / units
A diplomatic ‘resource’ which has multiple uses, such as assimilating minor factions, choosing powerful empire bonuses, or in one case forcing diplomatic treaties on other factions.
Spectacular art, aesthetics, music, and UI
Cool region system, with one city per region
Interesting mix of buildings in cities and expanding cities through the map
That is not to say this is THE fantasy 4X – it definitely needs some work yet. For example, there have been a few complaints about the economy becoming a bit tedious to manage by mid game with no new elements. However, the game is currently at least a 7 (better than vanilla civ at release imo), and has the potential to be THE fantasy 4X. The ffh killer. The MoM killer. Amplitude is fairly generous in releasing free mini-dlcs that include new content or minor features (such as a random event system in endless space), and with a few major expansions planned…
This is definitely something worth investing in!
Been a fan and proud supporter of Amplitude studios since I first discovered Endless Space. Of the three games (of which I own all of them), this is by far my favorite. As a fan of the genre, I prefer it to Warlock 2 and Age of Wonders 3. It has far more varied gameplay (you can NOT mistake a game as the Broken Lords for a game as the Roving Clans, for example) than either of the two can muster, and their game philosophy of Games2Gether shines through as things only dreamed of by 4X fans get implemented in to this game.
The game is beautiful, the UI is wonderful, the factions are truly varied (and not minor modifiers like in Age of Wonders 3), and the soundtrack is memorable. Need I say more?
This game looks really awesome. I’m Really excited to get to play it. Definitely looks like one of the most emersive 4x games out there.
I’m really looking forward to this game! The combat seems a lot more interesting than in games like Civ5, the instanced battles are something that I think is really cool!
Release version next week is what I’ve heard…
That is correct. They have announced that the game will officially release on September 18th.
They released a new patch today that is supposed to dramatically increase the AI’s capabilities. I’m looking forward to seeing how it performs this weekend.
Hi Keith,
Would it possible for you to list the number of hours you’ve played with the new build along with your conclusions on the AI?
In my experience, it can take up to 20+ hrs before you can really spot a weak AI due to the nature of 4Xs. Of course, Beta experiences will probably dramatically shorten the time.
@SQW Yes I agree that it is important to spend many hours evaluating a game before stating any conclusions. This is especially true when it comes to judging an AI implementation.
I’m certainly happy to share my playtime and have done so in a few reviews in the past. I can safely say I won’t be getting 20+ hours this weekend. For the final review I will play until I feel comfortable with my impressions. If history is any indicator, this will certainly exceed that mark even without taking pre-release hours into account. This is often why my reviews tend to come a bit later than a lot of other sites. Hopefully the added time investment makes it still worthwhile.
Here’s hoping some of my playtime involves having to restart when the AI outplays me. That would be quite lovely to see.
Just played a few hours on the latest version.I think the game looks superb for a vanilla release and has lots of content.This could be the best strategic 4X fantasy game ever.
I can’t wait until release to give it a good run.
Hope to hear about the review soon.
There hasn’t been too many complaints about the AI on its forum, unlike Warlock II.
Curious to what the AI difficulties actually implies. Is there a better ‘subroutine’ with each level or just a straight up resource/production bonus?
I seriously dislike difficulties levels where the difference between easy and impossible is simply AI mindlessly throwing tier 1 units and AI mindlessly throwing tier 3 units at you.
http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/showthread.php?38160-Gameplay-feedback-A.I.
Damn, guess that’s another one off my list. =(
Yes, that’s depressing all right. I think one of the main differences between modern 4x games and the classics (like MOM, SMAC and AOW2) is that those old games had the living hell game-tested out of them before they were released.
These new ones seem too be booted straight out the door as soon as they are moderately stable without any serious regard for gameplay, AI or balance. Sad really.
LOL.All those games were released with lots of bugs that needed community patches to fix because you were lucky to get even one patch back then.
The games today have much better support cycles.
That’s funny, I seem to be able to play those classics just fine without any community patches at all, just the few official ones.
Back then you bought a fully featured game that *might* require an official patch or two to tweak it. Nowadays you end up buying a crippled, barely playable skeleton of a game which may – if you are very lucky – eventually end up being fun, balanced and feature-complete after literally years of expansions, patches and dlc.
If that’s an example of ” much better support cycles” give me the old days any time.
I have played EndlessLegend for 13 hours just fine too.The game is solid and has lots of content.Some of you negative folk just search for issues all the time while living in a nostalgic past which never was.
Strategy gaming now is miles better in volume and diversity than the old days.Fuck would I want to go back to one good game every 5 years.
Moo2 and AC had many buggy non functioning parts of the game you possibly did not notice.
I’ve had a total of two CTD’s throughout EL’s entire development. It is not without its bugs and glitches, but it is very stable.
I dare any of you to provide a better example of a vanilla fantasy 4X.
Or hell, a better vanilla 4X period, without the fantasy modifier in the past 10 years.
Those of who think MoM was better at release are deluding yourselves. I was young then, but I remember that there were a few strategies that the AI had absolutely no defense for whatsoever. I remember as an 11-year-old beating MoM’s highest difficulty.
Went to remind myself when MoM came out. Turns out I was twelve, but I noticed the second paragraph of the Wikipedia page: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Magic
@ ashbery76 & DevildogFF,
Actually I was speaking of modern games more in a general sense. Endless Legend is probably one of the better modern 4x games, both in terms of production values and gameplay. It has some really interesting ideas and some rather unique and clever mechanics. That being said, the AI is really, really bad which kind of spoils everything else. But if they fixed the AI it would be quite a good game.
And it may be my rampant nostalgia talking – no doubt that’s what you will believe – but even though I think EL is pretty good, MOM and AOW2 still leave it for dead in terms of fun and gameplay, (even if EL’s AI was not brain-dead). They were simply better games, IMO of course.
@ ashbery76 & DevildogFF
A good AI is not about mimicking a human and beating the player; it’s about giving players a fun and challenging opponent which is fundamental to any enjoyable competitive experience, be it sport or game of any description.
Content and stability mean nothing if your AI opponent is a drooling simpleton that stares at you blankly throughout the game. What use do I have for unique races/research tree if the AI can’t build units or garrison its cities? What use is for diplomacy if the AI is unable to behave in a way the player can fathom?
EL is pretty and interesting but it’s NOT a good 4X game in its current form.
My worry is twofold.
Although I very much liked Endless Space, the AI for it really was quite poor at release, and it never improved much. Second, they basically abandoned the game and shifted all of their effort to Legends. That doesn’t bode well for longer-term survivability.
I do grant that the issue with AI is endemic to complex strategy games. This is an argument for simpler rule sets in my view – I had very similar reservations about Distant Worlds (the AI there also never gave a challenging game, and you had to “house rule” yourself to not do obvious things in order to prolong the game.) GalCiv, by contrast, had extremely capable AI (as did Sins); it’s not a coincidence that these games had simpler rules.
I very much agree that a decent AI is very important in 4X games. As you know I did a mod for the Distant Worlds AI and improved as much as possible. But keep in mind that a game can be a lot of fun anyway.
And that’s certainly the case with Endless Legends. I’ve just passed 50 hours and I’m yet to play 6 factions where there is a lot of variety on offer. I’m still getting to grips with the variety of capabilities available to Units and Heroes in Tactical Combat.
I find Serious difficulty works about right, the AI bonuses are not excessively ridiculous like Endless difficulty (which is winnable but not fun). At Serious difficulty the AI gets enough help to make the game far more interesting than Normal.
If the AI isn’t further improved in patches I still expect to get at least another 100 hours out of Endless Legends which makes the game a great investment.
You said that you liked Endless Space. Well I would be surprised if you didn’t like Endless Legends a bit more, as there are a lot of improvements.
Hmm…if Space Sector is going to cover fantasy strategy games, shouldn’t it be offering air time to an established series with more than a decade of development, the latest version of which is available now with over 2,000 unit types, several hundred spells (including ones with a global effect) and complex army scripting for tactical combat?
Yes, I mean Dominions 4 at http://www.illwinter.com/dom4/ – lock Keith up in a dark cave for a few months to give him time (and atmosphere) to properly savour it. :)
Dominions 4 has been mentioned before. There are a few reasons why I haven’t played it.
My understanding is that Dominions 4 is really a multiplayer game and single player should be viewed as a tutorial. Since multiplayer isn’t my preference for these sorts of games, I don’t feel I’d be able to fairly assess the game.
Another reason is the amount of time it would take to truly understand the game. As you mentioned, I’d need months in a cave. This was a joke (I think, ha), but the general idea is valid. It is a deep game and can be quite a commitment.
The final reason is when I demo’d Dominions 3 it just didn’t grab my attention. Granted this was years ago, so perhaps I would feel differently now.
“My understanding is that Dominions 4 is really a multiplayer game and single player should be viewed as a tutorial.”
Well I’ve been (re)playing Dom 3 single-player – I’ll certainly concede that the AI isn’t going to substitute for human deviousness, but I’d say it’s also no worse that MOO2 or (modded) Space Empires V in that regard. And a good deal better than Age of Wonders or much of the Civilization series.
What makes the Dominions series distinct from almost all other fantasy games (the Total War series being the closest exception) is the ability to muster and fight with armies containing hundreds or even thousands of units. Every other game I’ve come across either limits you to a few units (Age of Wonders) or stacks units of the same type again leaving you with a few (high-powered) units on the battlefield (Heroes of Might and Magic, Kings Bounty series). With Dominions, “cannon-fodder” has more meaning, and while the 2D sprites used in combat may look primitive, they provide clearer indication of how battle is going compared to the likes of Total War.
As for time required, it’s fair to say that mastering the game with all those unit types and spells could take months, but it should be possible to provide a good view of the game without such expertise. The basic mechanics are well documented in the manual (itself a noteworthy 400-page standout) and other players have produced strategy guides for many positions.
It is different enough from most other games reviewed here to seem off-putting at first, but I would suggest it’s worth a second look for the same reason.
(Cave for rent – Cheap! Cold! Clammy!)
Thanks for the reply. The 400 page manual is daunting for sure, but if you feel it is worthwhile as a single player only experience, I’ll certainly keep it in mind. Perhaps something for when/if I hit a lull and need something to do.
For the moment though, I’m already playing catch up with what I’ve got on my plate. Too many games, not enough time. Wish I had so many options when I was young and without responsibilities.
For those wondering, the review is coming, I just need a little more time. I’ve put in a fair amount of hours so far, but Endless Legend offers a lot of ground to cover. Thanks for your patience.
I’ve been browsing reviews and forums. Basically the conclusion is that you either love it for the art and design or reckon the AI is abysmal and wouldn’t touch it until the devs patch it up to something resembling a enjoyable single player.
Basically ES.
I imagine the game after a few batch would be fantastic to play in MP but AI is just the Achilles’s Heel for Amplitude and I doubt it’ll improve much (strategically or diplomatically) beyond a few tweaks or so.
Based on the fact that you dislike an AI that relies on having significant advantages to compete (at higher difficulty levels), I’m inclined to say you’d be unsatisfied with it based on your prior comments.
For the record, I personally don’t care if the AI gets bonuses as long as it competes. Whether or not it does so I am still determining.
I’m fine with AI getting bonuses – as long as it can use it in a reasonable manner.
Several posts on Amplitude’s forum confirmed my fears. Only the Legendary level offers a challenge, not because the AI is any good at using the game mechanic but because the AI gets so huge a bonus, it can throw a never ending tide of units at you.
Unfortunately, it only knows how to train low-mid level units (just more of them compared to easier difficulties) while still incapable of defending itself so if you stabilize the mid game, it’s just dumb grind. The AI is also incapable of using diplomacy so everything ends up being a conquest game.
I don’t know how other 4x gamers prefer their SP games but to me, that sort of lazy AI coding is simply not fun to play against.
The core mechanics of EL would make a fantastic MP game but in my view, the SP simply can’t stand on its own feet atm.
Now that I’ve played 85 hours it is worth noting that the AI is inconsistent. In some games Endless difficulty is a cakewalk and then every now and again I see this ultra aggressive faction that slaughters me. Given the AI can be aggressive in some cases maybe Amplitude can make some changes that have a material impact. It also partly explains why you see so much inconsistency in posts from some players.
Also on Endless difficulty the AI units are not low tier, as they research so fast they often an era or so ahead, which impacts both unit base stats and what they can arm themselves with. I’m routinely outmatched, so I rely on high initiative ranged units which works to an extent, but in the end this can only go so far. Perhaps there are some other tricks I haven’t found yet that means I can win even against that ultra aggressive faction on Endless difficulty but for the moment I just wonder what the smeg just happened.
So at the end of the day I’m winning some games and losing same games. I’m having a great time playing the different factions and shooting for different victory types than just those that are conquest based.
But yes until the AI mechanics are improved particularly militarily the game will be limited in longevity. While I’ve already got my moneys worth, I can certainly understand that you feel differently.
And yes Normal should be considered the level for newbies learning the mechanics, nobody should actually be playing at that level unless they want a complete cakewalk … which I must admit I do when shooting for achievements, LOL!