OMG! After Return of the Shakturi and Legends and if Pandora: First Contact, a new sci-fi 4X game would not have been enough, now Matrix Games have just announced a new expansion for Distant Worlds, to release still this year in Q4! I love these guys. No details are available yet. I’ve pushed for some :) I’ll keep you posted on this!
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Wow, going to be quite a year potentially for 4x games. However… if they plan to pitch the Distant Worlds series to anyone who isn’t currently invested in the prior titles, they REALLY need to consider bundling the games up and lowering the total cost of ownership. I already felt like the price was too high even during the winter sale. They are going to be facing A LOT of competition for consumer dollars.
I suppose if Endless Space and Legends of Pegasus both fail horribly then they can probably afford to charge whatever they want. If not, they might want to reconsider their pricing model.
More options leaves room for one or two of the titles to fail, I suppose in the end it will allow us to make a smart rather than desperate decision.
I agree with you there. They should AT LEAST sell the original game with all the interface changes in it. You shouldn’t have to pay for interface upgrades, because that’s what ROTS was, mostly interface upgrades. If they are looking to get people to buy the expansions, they should make the beginning experience as best as they possible can.
I think they should bundle the original game and ROTS together, especially if coming out with another expansion
I think the landscape has changed since they originally released Distant Worlds. Looking over the big 4x releases of the last few years, I can’t find any that appear to have the same amount of polish as some of the upcoming titles. Perhaps hype was high for a few of them prior to release and I wasn’t paying attention… but none of them have grabbed my attention the way that this year’s upcoming releases have.
Endless Space looks REALLY good based on the screenshots, small amount of video, story, and EIGHT unique factions they are planning to present. I hesitate to get my hypes too high for this one, but in a very short time it has risen very high on my interest meter. I’m not a graphics snob… I do play indie games like Project Zomboid, Dungeons of Dredmor, etc. Endless Space does show that a seemingly deep 4x game can ALSO have very high quality visuals. I don’t want to take anything away from Distant Worlds, but I think the difference in that department is clear.
Legends of Pegasus is a toss up for me. I really feel like it could go either way. I think the campaign will be fun to play through. I wonder what the replayability will be like with only 3 factions. Kalypsochris has posted some responses to questions lately that have made me feel a little better about the possibilities. For example:
“Also, the two other races build their ships in a different way. The X’or for example do not have pre-defined classes. They combine various sorts of modules to build unique ships. We will show you more of that later.”
“There will however be four guilds as NPC factions that roam the universe and have goals of their own. For example one guild focuses on trading and you can get trade benefits from them.”
I suppose my point is that I almost paid $80 US dollars for Distant Worlds this past winter due to a complete lack of worthwhile 4x games. With Endless Space, Legends of Pegasus, Pandora: First Contact (I expect this to be overpriced coming from Matrix Games), and X:COM Enemy Unknown all expected this year, I don’t think I will feel the need to spend 1.5 to 2x the cost of a normal game to get a worthwhile 4x experience. I should also mention Drox Operative, while not a 4x per say, but it is yet another space game I am anxiously anticipating.
Yes, it’s been noted by too many people already that Distant Worlds is just way too expensive. If games are good they can be expensive but enough is enough, even when they are more niche games.
I agree 100% with you Ermdog. The core game has become a bit obsolete by now. Maybe Legends could be skipped by some but Return of the Shakturi is a must, so, I really hope they make a bundle now.
Because if buying up to Legends (the best experience not doubt) was very expensive buying up to the 3rd expansion can become quite ridiculous. I’m sure they will have some kind of bundle thought out.
Awwwwwww Yeeahhhhh!
Not sure if I’ll pick this up now that I’ve played many games of the original + 2 expansions as the developer is clearly interested in shoveling expansions instead of fixing long standing bugs. The game was fun but is overshadowed by serious problems that the developers are well aware of as the “techsupport/bugs” forum is full of posted issues. Major problems are laggy UI because the game uses the deprecated windows 2d renderer so it’s slow on anything that’s not XP (my computer can blaze through Crysis at an insane res but it takes multiple seconds to open the research screen). Fonts don’t scale with UI resolution so anything but the smallest monitor res makes the fonts unreadable on top of just general gameplay bugs. Also it’s really expensive, has no demo and is not available on a commonly used DL service.
You’re not alone feeling like that. I’ve been reading some people thinking the same away as you about a new expansion now. Well, not right now because there are probably 6 months still for release.
Although having more to look for is always nice I agree that something has to change regarding the game pricing policy. The funny thing is that this is probably one of the most asked questions here and in the DW forums about DW. “Will there be a bundle?” (cheaper we would assume). So, there is moderate to high demand still.
So, Matrix perceives this high interest in the 4X fan base community, and probably thinks that it will be just a matter of time, or a matter of a new expansion to get them all on board. I don’t blame them too much, DW (specially after the expansions) has become a hell of a good 4X game with many very high reviews (including mine). I perceive them as gamers but they are also here to make a business.
As it seems we’ll have to wait a bit while longer for a DW2 announcement. I don’t hide that in my deepest hopes I was hopping for a DW2 announcement, and not for a new expansion. But, having a new expansion is great of course, although not optimal in my view because in part the things you enumerate: performance issues, font rendering issues, some balancing issues and price.
So, what could they do?
Customer support or at least community support has been good in my opinion. At least there’s always someone in the forums willing to help you. It’s clear that the devs and the publisher care, they listen, and they’re smart by doing so. But the game costs almost $100 (for people that need to pay VAT). And I mean “the game” for me, and I know many others is Legends. Although Return of the Shakturi is already very good, but almost $75.
Would they make more money by dropping prices? Perhaps. But I will not talk much about pricing here because frankly I’m not in a position to know much about it, at least from a marketing perspective and because I don’t have data to support my judgement. However I will dare to say that what I think is wrong with the pricing: an incomplete original game.
Sure Civ4 had Civ4: Warlords and then Civ4: Beyond the Sword. We could try to make a parallelism here with DW, DW:RotS and DW:Legends. And we could even make a parallelism between Civ4: Colonisation, the last Civ4 expansion with DW:. In both games you need to buy the core and the expansions separately, and to my knowledge there were never super-saving bundles in Civ4. You must had the original game or you’d be out of luck. You also need to make a serious investment to buy up to BotS for example. No whining, just open your wallet and receive probably the best 4X experience to date.
And this is the problem in my opinion. Civ4 was inferior to BotS but Distant Worlds core is way more inferior to DW Legends. Distant Worlds vanilla is too expensive. $50 for DW vanilla is an abuse in my opinion. And while if you buy bundle with RotS it’s ~$75 is still too much in my opinion. I would keep the expansions price but I would drop DW core to probably half the worth it is being sold now. Then I think prices would be closer to being fair.
No Gold or Platinum edition = no sale for me.
Perhaps it will be a standalone expansion as Smight suggested, which I added could be cheaper for the loyal fans. Let’s hope so.
2012 – Year of the 4x?
There are so many 4x games coming out this year, its getting hard to keep track of all of them!
Definitely a good thing.
It’s so wonderful!! And we’ll have new XCOMs also!!
Having just payed full price to get into this game a new add on with a bundle isn’t going to help me sadly :(
Yea, I think it is time for Matrix/Slitherine to understand that they need to start re-compensating people like you that invested on the full game with free stuff, or at least with an attention. I think it wouldn’t be far from just that this new expansion would be offered as a free DLC or at least with a 50% off coupon for people that decided to invest a lot of money in the full game up to Legends. I think it would be fair and just for the loyal community.
if they make this one Stand alone expansion, similar to Rebelion they could get more coustomers and probobly get away with a bit higher price for expansion
You know what, I think you just hit the jackpot here. That’s a great idea! It would make all the sense in the world for me too if they go that road.
As I already commented above I think DW vanilla is just too expensive and frankly a bit of dead weight now. Although it probably represents about 75-80% of all gameplay logic we don’t buy frameworks, we buy games!!
Now thinking about it Civ4: Colonisation (3rd expansion) was indeed a standalone expansion, and now also for Sins 3rd expansion Rebellion. Perhaps it’s a pretty standard thing. A 3rd expansion SHOULD be a standalone one. I think that may probably be the case here. At least I hope so.
People that had the game up to Legends could receive a ~75% off coupon for example and buy the new standalone expansion much cheaper. That way you could price the new expansion a bit higher as you say. Loyal fans would have a chance to buy the new expansion cheaper and new buyers would not need to pay $130 but probably $40-$50. Loyal fans would only need to pay $10-$15. Now that seems fair for a 3rd expansion. But this will depend a lot on what Matrix / Slitherine and Codeforce manage to offer on the new DW expansion of course.
well, due to matrixgames price policy this is going to be at the very bottom of my must have list
additionally to the ones mentioned here there are a couple of promising titles coming out this year
Stardrive
Gemini Wars
Xenonauts
UFO 2 Extraterrestrials (if it is not delayed again)
and not to forget some indie titles already presented here by the great adam :-)
deep space settlement
and especially
Predestination, which judging from the progress reported on the web page is coming along very well and really looks fantastic, look at the planet exploration and resource discovery feature
http://predestinationgame.com/
btw since I play 4x games in fantasy setting, there are some more interesting titles on my list
fallen enchantress
warlock master of the arcane
master of the broken worlds
Thanks for your inputs salvo. And thanks also for your kind words :)
Xenonauts is shapping into a hell of a good game people. If you missed it checkout our preview: https://www.spacesector.com/blog/2012/04/xenonauts-preview/
Gemini Wars seems to be a strong and solid space RTS experience. I will start working on the game shortly, so expect to see an hands-on preview soon or a review to release beginning of June.
StarDrive is something special also. You also have a preview available: https://www.spacesector.com/blog/2012/02/stardrive-preview/
Unfortunately I don’t have anything yet on UFO 2 Extraterrestrials. I contact Chaos Concept a while ago without any answer yet. I’ll give them another nudge soon. Yes, let’s hope they manage, the game has been slipping badly for some time now. Perhaps they are waiting to bank on XCOM mania this fall, with the 3 amigos releasing by then. The big boy XCOM: Enemy Unknown, the cunning smaller boy and the …. don’t know yet much about UFO2:Extraterrestrials.
I have high hopes for DSS and Predestination also. Well, that’s one of the reasons why I wrote about them for sure but I really felt something special in both games and specially about their developers: Stéphanie and Nyphur respectively. I didn’t cover yet other excellent stellar indie ventures not because there aren’t more interesting projects (there are, plenty thankfully!) but because I simply can’t make to them all, I don’t have time :) If any of you guys want to help contribute to the site I’m always willing to accept people on board that share the passion for these games.
About fantasy 4X games, you know what it’s funny that I thought (and I’m still thinking) on covering Fallen Enchantress here at space sector. Yes, even with a Review. Why? Because although it’s fantasy and not sci-fi it’s TBS and4X and, while that’s not really a logic motive but more a personal one, it’s also Stardock’s and it was a failure when it came out.
I have a lot of respect for Stardock. They gave me GalCiv and Sins, they have a special place in my heart. But that doesn’t mean I can’t be neutral about them. The ones who know me know that I always try the best to be neutral and assertive in my game appreciations. Friendship is one thing, working is another thing.
So, as I say in my about page I also tend to cover other strategy games other than sci-fi “when I find it of interest to this site’s community”. That’s why I cover Civ. That’s why I will probably cover Fallen Enchantress. If I see that there are other non-space or non-sci-fi strategy games that are of interest to you (and naturally me) I will also cover them here.
Warlock master of the arcane and Master of the broken worlds also look great. If only I had more help I think it would be awesome to cover these strategy games as well. Although sci-fi and fantasy are different, they are sister sub-genres of speculative fiction, and that interests me and I know of you also, a lot.
Hi adam
I already read your previews, it’s thank to your outstanding work that I know of such projects as endless space, stardrive, predestination and so on. I’m really glad to be able to support indie game developers creating the games ‘we’ players do like to play. That’s why I’ve backed several kickstarter projects. Well, I even back some projects the final result I’m probably not going to play as I’m not so much interested in the genre plus don’t have the time to play everything anyway, yet I find it great what people independently create …
The kickstarter project by Jane Jensen introduced the idea of ‘community supported game development’ (CSG)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1005365109/jane-jensens-pinkerton-road-2012-2013-csg?ref=category
though it’s not the sort of game I actually play, I find such approach really amazing
If I had more times – i.e. by playing less – I’d surely like to provide some more help :-)
Although I was replying to you I was actually thinking in people in general when I recommended the links. It’s the “you only” or “you all” thing :)
That community supported game development concept you mention that is emerging is probably what Endless Space guys are also doing with their games2gether initiative. I don’t have the details but it looks like you can influence how the game shapes up, really be part of the game design, and most probably testing as well for sure.
Shoot me an email some day you feel excited on writing about something and we’ll talk.
Re. your idea of a75% off voucher for the next add on perhaps they could title it ‘And pigs might fly’ :D
Well, I wrote 50% at first but then thought “What a hell, why not?” :)
But yes, its too much wishful thinking alright. Although 15 bucks for a person that invested $100 already wouldn’t shock me that much for a new expansion.
Distant Worlds is a fantastic 4x game. In my mind there are only a few things I would like to see iterated.
1) Civilians (im not the biggest fan of the way they all go about automatically I would like more control over what they do, for me I find civilians a bit of a immersion killer and it effects my replay value, but maybe thats a perspective that might change.)
2) If they could changed their engine, to Torque that would be amazing. (though i think im being unrealistic) (or if they could merge with minmax that would be highest on my wishlist)
3) Immersion a) I would put mining in charge of the player and not civilians, maybe civilian ships but player controlled b) Combat whilst its ok, it would be better (im a bitter ol’ EVE vet,) and I would like to see a more EVE style combat, in a Distant Worlds format.
Overall I’m really looking forward to what to come in Distant Worlds
1. Agreed. Something is missing in DW’s private sector. They’re independent in theory alright but this is a strategy game, not a real-life government simulation, so I also thing there should be more ways to influence the private sector (perhaps not control, but influence). This would be an interesting debate to have. Being a strategy game I believe that we should be more able to influence the private sector, to be more in control of things, if not then we’re watching a simulation only. I had (and still have) some issues with this DW’s feature.
2. Perhaps too much for an expansion? Don’t no, I’m just guessing here. That’s why I was hoping for a Distant Worlds 2 announcement and not another expansion. But I’m ok with that also :)
3. I don’t have so much issues with mining being a bit abstracted into the private sector. However what I have issues with is with how easy it is to secure most if not all resources (too abundant) and the fact that everybody has everything and we can’t fight so much interesting wars as we can (and must!) in Civ 4 or 5 for example.
In any 4X games there is a random aspect, in DW a part of that is called the private sector.
I think it is an interesting idea that underlines in a consistent way that the player can’t have full control of his empire.
Said that I would not be against more intruments to influence the private sector but at the same time I would also not be against a well defined private sector that can try to influence the player in return.
Megacorporation could span more than one empire and the take exception if the player mess up with their arrangements.
At the same time they could like to see the player empire attack the base empire of their worst competitor.
Going even a step more further I would quite like to play the CEO of one of the megacorporations and manage to bring the bacon home no matter what the politician are plotting.
The idea of having mega-corporations playing in both sides (interacting with different factions) is a very interesting one indeed. Not different factions but private sector corporations run by great families with their own agenda run by the AI.
You mean, you would like to make these mega-corporations playable? It’s also an interesting thought, like experiencing a 4X game from the private sector’s perspective. But, then where does the 4X stand? Explore, expand the corporation. Exploit resources and exterminate what or who? Other corporations? Overthrow or manipulate the empire’s burocrats? That sounds like Space Corporation Tycoon :)
I read a lot of SciFi where Megacorporation did not had any problem going mana a mano against their competitors or doing some little extermination here and there if the economic return was good :-)
But then that sounds a bit like those kind of mega-powerful-corporations could be a playable “faction” on their on. A traditional faction you choose during a 4X game setup.
Think in races like the Star Trek’s Ferengi for instance that are obsessed with business, trade and profit. Think in Star Wars’ Trade Federation (“very powerful Republic commerce guild, trade cartel, megacorporation and lobbying group”). Now this last one in particular sounds like (no, IT IS) a mega-super-corporation to me :)
But both the Trade Federation and the Ferengi would be playable factions in a 4X game, because they have reached the point where they are so powerful that they have their own armada and their own plans for domination and conquest. Maybe they are not too interested in research or population growth but certainly would be in politics, influence and power, and would want to control their own set of systems. Like the Hutts in Star Wars. We don’t know if they control only Tatooine or other planets in that system or nearby.
In other words, if mega-corporations reach sufficient critical mass they become a 4X traditional faction, in this case with a vocation for trade, business and influence. A trade guild. If they don’t have enough power then they diminish and should not be playable factions, but NPC races, that can however still be vary active in the game and play an important role of course.
What I think you mean (what I could grasp) is that you would find cool to play a 4X faction that maintains a close relationship with many other factions. Like the Star Wars Trade Federation for example. Not having a traditional isolationist experience in the sense of building a tight empire “you are there, I am here” but one where the motives are to develop and spread a mega-corporation through many factions and who knows manipulate them and start running the show. Sounds like mega-corporations here at Earth alright :)
thanks for replying to me
My pleasure :)